Curse

The Josip · Feb 26, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

so stop discrediting others based on what profession they happen to pick in their forum profile. it's irrelevant and stupid.

Nothing is irrelevant and I discriminate everything. Discrimination is the basis of wisdom.

Anyway, discussion over as far as I care, I'm off to play my new OP character.

Del · Feb 26, 2010, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Nothing is irrelevant and I discriminate everything.

It's completely irrelevant, and you discriminate everything because you're a narrow minded twit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Discrimination is the basis of wisdom.

open mindedness is the basis of wisdom, discrimination leads to the narrow minded stupidity found in this thread.

maxxfury · Feb 26, 2010, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Sorry to burst your bubble. Take a look at my Mesmer now.

He's obviously good looking. He even has a moustache and sculpted abs, so he must be manly. S

Linking the mes dude! doesnt look gay at all!

*gloves are for waving in peoples faces to make them go all whoooooooaa...

ONtopic: mesmers dont need to look any better or any less "gay looking".

Infact the female mesmers need to look LESS like leather clad biker ho's if anything

*seems i got carried away thinkin this was almost the show your armour thread

The Josip · Feb 26, 2010, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

open mindedness is the basis of wisdom, discrimination leads to the narrow minded stupidity found in this thread.

You shouldn't discriminate stupid or narrow minded, it makes you look like a hypocrit.

upier · Feb 26, 2010, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

So, please. Is this just a matter of DAMAGE or not? You keep on saying it isn't...

Damage-wise Mesmers are absolutely fine. Armor Ignoring damage > PvE. The simple fact they often rely on reactive hexing is now irrelevant, they also have good options for direct damage that work.

There are two ways to fix this:
1. the right way
2. the easy way

The right way means that all classes get a point. This goes beyond the mesmer issue. This can only be done by reworking PvE. And this is something that, based on the updates we are getting, will probably not happen. Because it takes too much work and because everything they've been doing for the last few years is in the complete opposite direction that would have to be taken to fix the game this way.
And then there is the easy way. That means you buff the mesmer's damage output (since damage wins PvE), putting the mesmer in the same league as other godly classes. The mesmer issue now becomes the dervish or the ranger issue. Considering that this is how they've been dealing with PvE - for instance, we used to have "the ritualist issue" - buffing the best classes instead of the worst ones doesn't make sense.
Unless, of course, they are too dumb to be aware of the issue.
In which case - this thread is MORE than needed.

maxxfury · Feb 26, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

There are two ways to fix this:
1. the right way
2. the easy way
..snip

Been seriously lazy, you would think it take the easy option eh?

Well i would but ONLY if we cant have the right option.

Id rather my playing field was a little lumpy (never be level )than off at the gradient it is atm.

Gill Halendt · Feb 26, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And then there is the easy way. That means you buff the mesmer's damage output (since damage wins PvE), putting the mesmer in the same league as other godly classes.

They tried with VoR+CoP, they failed. Back to normal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

buffing the best classes instead of the worst ones doesn't make sense.

Random buffing a ill-conceived profession doesn't make any sense either. It's a waste of resources, while Blood Magic and Tactics needed a rework and maybe there's even someone in this game who's gonna experience those buff. Since, you know, as it was scientifically proved (?) in this thread, no one plays the Mesmer even as a secondary because they "suck"...

Buffing Blood Magic and Tactics and buffing the Mesmer aren't alternatives. Blood Magic and Tactics needed a rework. A simple and easy one, so they went for it. The Mesmer profession desperately need one, but it is probably beyond sight and overcomplicated for them and for their lacklustre resources, unless they go for some half-baked random buff here and there just to please you (again, just like VoR in 2008).

So yes, you can make a matter of principle out of this. My conclusion is that they can't manage their game and their priorities - we knew it - but think that SOME update was better than NO UPDATE at all.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 26, 2010, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4554/mesmer.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8711/jaynew.jpg

Those look pretty homosexual to me. It's the emo hair, I think, combined with that moustache and their general pose.

Del · Feb 26, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

You shouldn't discriminate stupid or narrow minded, it makes you look like a hypocrit.

*hypocrite

and i fail to see how pointing out narrow minded dipshittery makes me one. but i guess when you have no argument whatsoever you have to resort to saying what is essentially NOU.

Gill Halendt · Feb 26, 2010, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Those look pretty homosexual to me. It's the emo hair, I think, combined with that moustache and their general pose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Check this out. It might prove useful when trying to understand this thread.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 26, 2010, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

and i fail to see how pointing out narrow minded dipshittery makes me one

If you were really open-minded, you wouldn't be calling it "dipshittery," amirite?

Del · Feb 26, 2010, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

The Josip. Mesmer.

Go figure who's grasping at straws for a lost cause, a spoiled Mesmer that didn't get a buff since IoP.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Take a look at my Mesmer now.

He's obviously good looking. He even has a moustache and sculpted abs, so he must be manly. So I just scientifically proved you're wrong (?).

That was sarcastic, don't bother replying.

So, please. Is this just a matter of DAMAGE or not? You keep on saying it isn't...

Damage-wise Mesmers are absolutely fine. Armor Ignoring damage > PvE. The simple fact they often rely on reactive hexing is now irrelevant, they also have good options for direct damage that work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Linking the mes dude! doesnt look gay at all!

*gloves are for waving in peoples faces to make them go all whoooooooaa...

ONtopic: mesmers dont need to look any better or any less "gay looking".

Infact the female mesmers need to look LESS like leather clad biker ho's if anything

*seems i got carried away thinkin this was almost the show your armour thread

Those, Mesmers. Look. FABULOUUUUUUUS!!

Del · Feb 26, 2010, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

If you were really open-minded, you wouldn't be calling it "dipshittery," amirite?

If you say so, but open mindedness doesn't mean blind tolerance.

moriz · Feb 26, 2010, 06:28 PM // 18:28

even funnier is that i didn't use the word "discriminate" anywhere in my post. the word i used was "discredit".

Gill Halendt · Feb 26, 2010, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Talk about discrimination, when he could tell a (virtual) man's sexuality by the way he wears his hair.

MagmaRed · Feb 26, 2010, 06:44 PM // 18:44

The Josip is just too lazy to realize what the real problem is, or, he likes taking advantage of the real problem. And Upier missed the real solution, his 2 are not the only options available. Mesmer can handle PvE fine, few people argue against that. However, other classes do it better (is the only arguement I see being made). Although I wouldn't mine some MINOR buffs to Mesmer, I have absolutely no issues with using mine. Even when VoR was the flavor of the month, I rarely used it, because I had other builds that worked just fine.

So, since Mesmer works fine for PvE, you could easily say it is well balanced (well, not perfectly). So if other classes are doing things better, there is the problem. Few people with any knowledge of the game would ignore the power creep that entered the game. Some classes/skills become TOO powerful. Some got nerfed, some didn't. Considering I dont' use many of the OP skills/builds, I'd be more than happy to see them nerfed. If that happened, the things a Mesmer can do becomes more valuable. SY isn't maintainable without 2-3 people dedicated to it? That means damage needs to be reduced from somewhere. Mesmer has a lot of options to reduce damage (interrupts, casting delay, movement reduction, etc.). And that is just one of the things I'll mention. If you really need to know more of what the Mesmer can do, you need to learn how to play the class.

This update did a few things I was pleased with. SF an 600/Smite were too widespread and powerful. Slowing them down was important. Things can still get done, but now it takes more brain power.... something few people have been using for the past year or so. And I love how people like to claim Soul Reaping is OP. I remember quite well when it was completely open, you could gain as much energy as you wanted as long as things were dying (pets, spirits, undead, players, monsters, etc.) and there was no time restraints. They added the restraints and the world ended.... so many people quite the game because they destroyed their favorite character (same happened with the 10 minion limit). People did quit because of it, and people will quit because of this build. I don't care though, because the people who care about the game, and are worth playing with know how to adapt.

Mesmer really does not have problems in PvE. The problem is that people are comparing Mesmer to other classes which have OP skills/builds.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 26, 2010, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Talk about discrimination, when he could tell a (virtual) man's sexuality by the way he wears his hair.

If your mesmer was straight, he'd have picked a different profession.

Problems?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Things can still get done, but now it takes more brain power

Which takes more brainpower? Me sitting there casting spells for 600/smite as I clear the zone, and sometimes requiring a bit of reflexes or timing?

Or me sitting there watching discord heroes clear the zone?

Gill Halendt · Feb 26, 2010, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

If your mesmer was straight, he'd have picked a different profession.

I wear a moustache and a beard just like him irl. Are you trying to scientifically demonstrate that I'm homosexual and useless because whatever I do some other people can do better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

SY isn't maintainable without 2-3 people dedicated to it? That means damage needs to be reduced from somewhere.

2-3 Warriors can mantain SY! on a party while still doing damage (Dragon's Slash builds). That's admitedly a good point.

But, as SOMEONE in this thread would have said. "SY!" is PvE-only, so it's not really an option.

upier · Feb 26, 2010, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

They tried with VoR+CoP, they failed. Back to normal.

VoR was a PvP nerf. They didn't even bother making a PvE version.
CoP was overpowered.
The problem?
The problem is when you have ONE skill that represents ALL that the class has to offer. And not only that - you then don't PvE-balance it (the way that SoS was just PvE-balanced (=made weaker but still completely over the top in terms of REAL balance)), but rather you just trash it.
That's like the decision to make Blood stronger and then all they'd do would be to come out with the new Barbed Signet. Pick 50 mesmer skills, drop their recharge, overbuff their damage and we'll get somewhere.

Now mix this with the fact that damage in this game is completely out of control, which means that mesmer options should ALSO be out of control. The stronger you make other guys, the more problems you are going to get from the mesmer because of how the guy is designed. So A.Net either needs to rework this crap, or they'll need to accept that the only way to make the mesmer viable is to let him blow up PvE or they'll need to come to terms that they have a shit-load of users who not only see what kind of shitty job they are doing but we'll also call them out on it.

Cuilan · Feb 26, 2010, 07:36 PM // 19:36

I don't think the old Visions of Regret was overpowered at all. It did decent damage and didn't conflict with mesmers skills. Other professions are going in the exact opposite way in where they're improving synergy with their own skills and with other professions.

One mesmer may like shutdown and interrupts, but the other mesmer players may want damage or a mix. How is it other professions can do many things while you want an extreme focus for one? That isn't fair to the players who enjoy the various aspects of a profession. There's more to a mesmer than PvP.

I'm all for slowing the game, buffing, or reworking. It's pretty crazy that mesmer, paragon, and dervish players will all have sit around while the gap between usefulness and power grows wider.

Necrosis no longer works for keeping Lyssa's Aura up, Arcane Echo for spam, or Mantra of Recovery for filler casting.